Just now, I opened my hotmail email, and this article was under the MSN Today tab. And it’s making me confront my biggest fear: ending up alone.
“Why I love women’s bodies”
Tall, short, plump or petite, one thing is universal—no matter what a woman’s shape, there’s a man out there who’ll appreciate it! To prove our point, listen to what these guys have to say, and feel your confidence soar… no matter what your body type.
It goes on with quotes from various different men about their significant other’s body type. And here’s the thing, it has raised a conflict within me that I can’t overcome. My feminist side is sitting here screaming in outrage at the insinuation that we need men to think we’re beautiful for us to feel beautiful. No one else should dictate how we feel about ourselves but ourselves. That’s not to say that I don’t appreciate having men agree with my opinion of my beauty, but I wish, for once, that it would be men and women saying they love their OWN bodies.
This goes along with owning our poo, and other such things. We should get to say we’re beautiful, and whether or not a man thinks my shape is beautiful or not should have no measure. Let’s kill the line: “Listen to what these guys have to say, and let your confidence soar, no matter what your body type.” and replace it with “Be confident and you will be beautiful.”
But at the same time, I’m still trapped by it. I know that I personally want men to think I’m beautiful. I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and I’ve figured out that my biggest fear right now is that I’ll end up alone because no one will ever find me attractive. I’ve started my nesting instincts early, I think. Whenever I see baby clothes and cute little kids, I keep thinking “I want one of those.” I already know, just shy of 21-years-old that I want to grow up and have a family. And at the same time, I see everyone around me pairing off into happy couples, and I can only hope to be that happy. I know I’m happy by myself right now, but I have no one to really share that happiness with, and I want someone to share that with.
I know, I know, that doesn’t mean that my physical attractiveness should take the front seat, but I’m starting to lose faith in this world that there are any men who DON’T think of superficially of physical attractiveness. Our nation is so stuck in that place where physical attractiveness takes precedence over everything else, that I just want to tear out my hair. And it scares me. Every day it scares me that no one will ever get past how I look to see who I am.
I discussed it in my fat documentary a little, and I think the fact that this is still hanging over me shows me that I’m not as confident as I thought I was. I’m still afraid that my fat will cause me to be old and alone. And I know I’ll need more than that. I deserve more than that.
I’d like to tell myself right now as I’m writing this that my lesson from it all should be “Well, if you don’t care about your fat, he won’t care.” or like I said earlier “confidence is beauty.” I want to own my poo. I want to not care. But this only proves that I’m human. I want a man to find me attractive. I want to find someone to share my life with. And the sad truth is that I feel completely powerless when it comes to this because beauty, the effing jerk, is in the eye of the beholder. It makes me so mad because I’ve given up all my power to men. And I just want to say fuck it. I just want to lie around in my pajamas and feel beautiful. I just want to look at myself in the mirror and say “this is great.” I just want to be fully and completely happy with myself.
Maybe it’ll happen someday. Maybe I need to just get out of college and live in the real world where people aren’t as superficial. I just don’t trust it to be that different.
All My Jiggly Bits 
Your post is uncanny with its timing.
I recently had a…it’s a difficult to explain situation, but to make a long story short, my first boyfriend essentially told me that he would never, ever see a future with me because he just didn’t find me attractive.
So, yeah, I don’t have much for you in way of answers, but I can tell you, the tug of war inside of my head between feminist and “Oh god, I need a man’s validation” is making me nearly sick.
Because right now, I feel as far from happy with myself as it is possible to be. : ( I wish I knew how to fix that.
Perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but I think the distinction can, and should, be made between wanting and needing to be attractive to others. I want men to find me attractive–every last one of them. I want them to swoon in the streets. I want women to find me attractive, too–more swooning please!–but apparently I give off a very het vibe, and it ain’t happening. Regardless, I want to be Helen of Troy in hi-top Chuck Taylors. Doesn’t everyone want that? There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be liked and appreciated and drooled over. Everyone’s got an ego, and egos like to be stroked.
That said, I don’t NEED it. I can be happy with what I see in the mirror, think in my head, and feel in my heart; I trust my intellect, my gut, and my intuition, and do not feel it necessary to get consensus on my attractiveness or my worthiness. (Not anymore, for the most part, anyway–as we all know, it’s ever a work in progress.) The problem arises when we give ego the car keys to our life, and allow everyone else to appraise our worth for us instead of knowing it ourselves. Then your self-esteem is entirely bereft of the “self” part, and goes up and down like the tide.
And I hate to break it to you, but don’t expect the so-called “real world” to be any more evolved than the world you’re living in now; you ARE living in the real world. People are people, and people are superficial. Look for individuals, in every sense of the word; you will find your tribe, and your love.
I will tell you this–my weight, and how I felt about it, has been far more detrimental to my relationship than how my college boyfriend (now husband of 14 years) felt about it. He will probably not care, not the right guy, regardless of how you feel about it. And he will tell you how beautiful and sexy you are, over and over, and you will not believe him. Until you do. You’re farther along this path than I was at almost-21; I was born with a lot of stubbornness that has kept me strong, but I didn’t find FA until I was 36.
I’ve gone on enough now, so I’ll hush. Be well.
Thanks Kristie.
I agree with you. With everything you said. It’s just getting my mind, the rational part telling me all these things, to agree with that little voice in my head saying what I wrote here.
I can’t tell right now whether I need it or want it, I guess. Sometimes I feel like I need that validation. And in the future, I think I’m going to more than want a family, but need one.
So I don’t know. I don’t think you’re splitting hairs. There’s a distinction to be made between need and want, but I think I can’t distinguish the two in this area right now. I hope one day I’ll be able to.
I don’t know if it will make you feel better or worse, but being in a relationship doesn’t make that desire for validation go away. It just focuses it. And, in my case, at least, makes me still want to be “appropriately attractive” so that the boy can feel like I’m brag-worthy.
It doesn’t end.
Welcome to the Dudeocracy.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting love and wanting someone to be attracted to you is a natural part of that. I actually think it *does* get better outside the college-age not because attraction becomes unimportant but becuase as people are more confident and self-aware they’re freer to be with someone *they* want, not the generically prettiest person that will win the envy of other dude. What you’re feeling here is totally normal so don’t beat yourself up for it, and best of luck.
Oh Gosh, It, I certainly hope you’re right. Thanks.
I can tell you this: I have a wonderful man in my life. But he’s not the gushy, mushy type who is always running around telling me I’m beautiful. He HAS told me that, but he’s not the type to keep saying it over and over again every day. He certainly will compliment me in other ways, and I can’t fault the way he treats me overall, but sometimes I feel like my brain is a bucket with a hole on the bottom and I feel like there is not enough “you are beautiful” in the world for me.
My ex-husband WAS the gushy type who said it almost every day, and did I feel more loved when I was with him? No, I did not, at all. Because it was a bad match, and I was profoundly lonely when I was married to him.
The bottom line is, I have to have an internal source for feeling beautiful, because there will not always be someone who will say it as often as I need to hear it. I am still working on that! And I have to imagine that’s even more true if you plan on having kids. Nora Ephron said once, “A baby is a hand grenade tossed in a marriage,” and that’s probably because nobody is prepared for the almost total loss of romance that happens when you have kids (although it can, of course, come back later as the kids grow up and don’t require as much intense attention).
And yes, FWIW, I think relationships have the potential to get WAAAAY better the further you get away from the age where “arm candy” is important to a lot of guys. That goes for women who ARE thin and conventionally “pretty” as much as it goes for the ones who aren’t. My mom was gorgeous as a young woman, and her relationships (including the one she had with my dad) were miles of sucky until she was nearly 50 and met my stepfather. Quantity of potential love interests =/= quality.
P.S. The guy you do meet ultimately? He’ll be worth the wait. He will not have to “see past” anything; he’ll think you’re adorable. Seriously. (If only people who looked like movie stars ever found partners, our species would have died out aeons ago!)
There are wonderful men out there for every shape of woman. I have been lucky enough to find one, so I know whereof I speak. I grew up and got married before the internet dating got popular, but you might want to think about some of the matching sites. You can put up the real you and sift out all those who can’t find you attractive for whatever reason (I admit, myself, that I find redheaded men, particularly with blue eyes, unattractive. It’s wierd and unfair, but attraction is, it truly isn’t fair.)
One thing to keep in mind is that someone that you see frequently will become more attractive to you. It’s been studied scientifically. People rate those they know as more attractive than people who not know those same people do. (Hope that was clear.) So another strategy is just to have a wide circle of friends and acquantainces. (As an introvert, this route would not have worked for me. I would have been exhausted and grouchy.)
Best of luck. And you aren’t weird for knowing you want kids and a family so soon. My husband knew from the time he was fifteen that he did. My previous boyfriend to him also knew he wanted a family from his early teens. Myself, I didn’t realize it until my mid-twenties. So, not only are you normal; but there are men out there who have the same feelings who are your age.
I agree with this; it’s good to seek out weird people, preferably ones who are weird in similar ways to you. I know it is flippant to act like I have any “words of wisdom” in this area, because truth be told I think it’s mostly a crapshoot, but I am married to one of those guys who is attracted to my appearance but for whom that is only one part of the whole package. So I guess all I can say is that people who are willing to be honest with themselves about what floats their boats, and to think independently vs. looking for a trophy/status partner, really are out there.
These people may either have strong physical preferences in a partner, and you happen to be exactly what they are looking for, or they will love you for a variety of reasons including your appearance, or your appearance won’t matter nearly as much to them as your other traits. Either way they will find you beautiful. Attraction is different for everyone, and I think it is a little bit of a trap (one which is very easy to fall into) to overestimate the rigidity of what is going to be considered “attractive” by the various guys you will meet. The world and the media tell us there is only one way to be attractive, but thank god the real world is much less clear-cut than that in my experience.
In my case, although I do dress up to go out and such, and I like to dress “well” and look decent by my own sort of weird, casual standards, I would never feel like I “couldn’t,” for example, wear comfy pj’s because it would somehow make me less beautiful to my husband. Or that it was objectively unattractive to leave the house without makeup or to wear Birkenstocks or whatever. He has been known to specifically compliment the bandannas I wear over my hair because he thinks they’re cute, so it happens that he finds my “style” attractive and does not really seem to be into women who fuss over their appearances as a general rule; and in any case he seems to “see me” and my (cue the cheese) “inner beauty” regardless of what I am wearing. He has told me I look pretty on more “conventional” occasions like when I’m dressed up for church, and on the other hand he went out of his way to tell me I looked cute this morning when I stumbled out of bed with greasy hair and a head scarf. It’s not so much that he constantly tells me I look great, as that he seems to find beauty in how I look at various random times that don’t always correspond with my having made a lot of effort or dressed really nicely.
I guess my “advice,” such as it is, would be to hold out until you meet one of those people with whom you have a deep mutual attraction, and not “settle” for someone who isn’t totally into you just as you are. Although I agree that maximizing one’s confidence is a great idea because it helps enhance your life in many ways totally apart from snagging a man, and can help you be open to meeting more people, friends and dates alike, I guess I am skeptical that striving to behave in a certain manner will necessarily attract the right mate. I would be more concerned about exploring what you like to do, wear, etc. etc.–finding the essence of who you are–and expressing the heck out of that, weird or not. Then if you do meet “the one,” there will be no surprises. What he sees is what he gets, and you will know he sees the real you and finds you beautiful. And I don’t know as I believe that this will really “decrease” your chances of finding “the one” anyway. I do feel it’s kind of a crapshoot, so personally I’d rather hit the jackpot when I’m being myself rather than when I’m behaving or dressing or trying to hide my fat in a way that isn’t really “me” but is what the world tells me is “attractive.”
I don’t know. This is kind of coming out wrong, but I hope you sort of get what I mean. In any case, I know all of this is really easy for me to say as an old married woman, so I’m sure that is quite enough unhelpful rambling for now. Suffice it to say I’m sorry you’re struggling with this issue right now.
You really think that people in the ‘real world’ are less superficial than in college? I’m still in college (well, grad school) at age 30+, partly because there’s such a high percentage of ‘not superficial’ people among my colleagues here. When I see the ‘real world’ twenty- and thirty-somethings working downtown, and the disdainful looks I’m given by those hyper-competitive skinny office types, I’m so thankful to be here instead!
I was just like you when I was younger. I thought nobody would love me because I was fat and ugly. I even tried killing myself a few times. I would mess up and tell guys I liked them, and they would reject me. One of them told me he liked his girls less fat and a bit pretty. So I was not a bit pretty. Not at all.
Mind you, these guys were my age or younger. Mind you, I was in High School and in the beginning of University. Mind you, the one who got to love me not only as I was, but because of what I was, is six years my senior. He graduated ages ago. He barely sees television, and he only watches British comedy (he’s British, yes, I’m the stereotype of the fatty with a boyfriend from the Internetz and I don’t care) or football or rugby matches. He’s barely an FX Channel kind of guy. He is afraid of Fergie. He is not the kind of guy with celebrity crushes who would dump you over Alyssa Milano. He is not brainwashed by the media. He is intelligent and talented. And he chose to love me as I chose to love him. Even if the guys from Lynx adverts may think he is gay or he couldn’t have gotten anything “better”.
And, he had never had a girlfriend. Six years my senior, and he hadn’t found the one. Girls fancied him and he fancied them back, but they never kissed nor got into a relationship and, I’m pretty sure, they never had sex. He just felt they weren’t the One. Until he found him. Until I found him.
It wasn’t through e-Harmony nor any of that shit. It was through mutual friends, and we shared interests and tastes in music and literature. We weren’t thinking of falling in love. We had just gotten out of a depression crisis. Somehow, I think we helped each other to get out of the crisis. And, as we helped each other out, we were finding out a big opportunity was in front of our eyes. So we gave it a shot.
We spend holidays together, and we pretty much know each other inside and outside. And we have been together for almost four years. He loves me so much he is changing jobs and cities (moving from a job were he is basically adored and moving from a hometown with plenty of cultural diversity) in order to get more money to finally come and live here. He loves me so much he has stopped doing dangerous things, and so have I.
And he is fucking gorgeous. In every single way. I still giggle like a schoolgirl when he sends me SMS, or when I look at our pictures together.
One day, you will find someone who loves you so much his world will change completely. And so will yours. And he will love you not despite of your flaws, but BECAUSE of your flaws. He will think you will be beautiful inside and outside (because you are), and you might aswell think the same about him. You don’t have to be stuck to a groupie for whom you have zero desire just because he wants you. A relationship is about mutual love and desire. You don’t deserve it.
I know whatever we are saying will fall on deaf ears now. It did when I was the adviced one during my darkest times. Everything will make sense to you when that someone appears in your life.
A tip: DON’T JUST SIT AND WAIT FOR HIM. Live your life. Love your life. Keep doing those awesome films and keep knowing yourself. Then, all of a sudden, when you least expect it, someone will fall into your cobweb and hopelessly fall in love with you, your physique, your soul and your personna. If you don’t grow as a person, what will you have to offer to the world? You’ve already come a long way. Keep going, and in a blink of an eye, maybe someone will be next to you.
And no, it’s not antifeminist to have these moments. We all have the right to love and be loved and want to be loved. Being a feminist doesn’t equal being a robot. Even if some feminists say they can do without a man or without a woman, they have something or someone to love and to love them. Family, friends, dogs, cats, Art, nature, a creative energy. Spread your love to the world and the things you are passionate about and love will come back to you. Maybe in the shape of a boy, but not as your ultimate goal in life.
*Until he found me.
oops, hehehe. Until he found him too. A bit of self discovery helps before stumbling with true love.
Mine is exactly like spacecowgirl’s. He even finds it cute when I burp and when I just woke up in the morning! If anyone is going to dump you for not being a stepford wife, then he’s a sucker and he didn’t worth it.
I’ll third what spacedcowgirl and cyn said. Finding people through mutual interests is a good idea. Finding people who are weird in some of the same ways as you is a good idea. Also that you may find someone when you least expect it. I met my husband two years into having (temporarily, but indefinitely) given up on looking for relationships or sex out of a BAD relationship so that I could find myself again, and I didn’t know I was ready to stop the boycott. And I certainly wasn’t out looking for a BOYfriend! He had pretty much stopped looking, as well, and *zap*… (We met through a mutual (and obscure) hobby.)
And he has loved the way I look far more than I have. Hair on my chin and all.
Seems like this subject has been coming up a lot in the fatosphere, lately. This is an area I have some experience in, having felt much as you seem to for much of my life. I can empathize with wanting a man (or multiple men) to find you attractive–and in my (anecdotal, obviously) experience, confidence and willingness to subject myself to possible rejection is what made all the difference.
I can’t say that fat isn’t a hindrance (the extant of that hindrance is debatable) but I can say with absolute certainty two things:
1. as obvious as it may be, I think bears repeating that fat does not rule out attraction–as I, and many other happily involved fat people, can attest, and 2. Slenderness does not guarantee attraction or love or anything else.
I know a fair number of single women, and most of them have similar feelings–and those who do attract lots of attention still have a hell of time making a successful relationship out of that attraction. In fact, my most traditionally beautiful (and size four) friend is the most romantically miserable person I know–longing for love and seemingly utterly unable to find it.
I don’t mean to downplay the pain of feeling unattractive in a world that demands that beauty=value. And a very particular, sexualized beauty at that. I have struggled with feeling I am somehow a “sub-woman” because of my 280+ lbs. I have good days and bad days with that, even though I have a husband who loves me and does find me attractive.
As a fat woman, I know the world is different for fat and thin women, but I simply want to point out that to scratch the surface of most women of every shape (sadly, sadly, sadly), is to find a seething mass of self-hate. I think many women struggle with feeling unattractive, and even those who do win that lottery struggle with the REAL part, which is love.
So long-winded as I am, I just want to say: I can’t promise you will find love, but I can promise that being fat doesn’t rule it out.
Oh, btw. This song is for you:
I just think that if I – with not only a lot of weight fluctuations but also an *ahem* unconventional personality – found myself a really good man, you, with your KICKASS!!11!! self are bound to find someone totally awesome when the time is right…
Crissy,
What a wonderful bunch of responses you’ve got here. 🙂 cyn, your story moved me so much.
My low sense of self-worth is what landed me in abusive relationships. In high school I was raped—part of the reason I never came forward was because I didn’t think anyone would believe a guy would want *me*, even though at the time I was what would be considered “conventionally attractive” (talk about body dysmorphia, but I also had anorexia). In college, when I was in my first LTR, I was raped again, this time by a “college guy”. My LTR was so psychologically abusive, and my self-worth still so low, that I didn’t tell my BF until after we broke up.
My next relationship was physically abusive. I was raped multiple times (don’t think you can get raped in a relationship? Wrong!) and *this* guy knew the correct buttons to push — keep me feeling I was less attractive than he was, less worthwhile, less intelligent, etc. Therefore, I think I believed — though in that kind of relationship it’s more like cult-mind believing than rational belief — that I deserved it.
My next relationship, I was so lucky to get with a guy who thought I was made of both win and awesome mixed together. I also—finally—knew how to spot abusive people, and he wasn’t one of them. In fact, he’d gotten out of his OWN abusive relationship (for those of you who don’t think women can abuse men? WRONG). We were very similar—we understood each other. I met him when I was 23. And he’s also significantly older than I am, with three teenage kids — so maturity wasn’t ever an issue, lol.
Honey, honey, honey, honey, honey.
The moral of the story, is — do NOT date or get involved with men until you’ve worked out your own issues surrounding self worth. For your own protection. Do NOT seek that validation outside yourself. You will GET IT if you find the right man, but do not SEEK it for its own sake. Your Documentary was so wonderful, honey, I know you have it in you to be the next Marilyn Wann. But it’s going to take time. I’m still coming to terms with my own body, which is shaped very differently since I kicked my ED, once and for all. I feel healthier and more beautiful than ever, but not after a period of feeling intensely *uncomfortable* due to the change.
I think you might be feeling — if not physically, emotionally — that same kind of discomfort with the idea of acceptance, even though you know it’s right, even though you feel it very strongly and passionately. But with everyone around you (and undergrad is a very toxic enviro in this respect, IMO) constantly beating on the drum of conformity to an ideal that you aren’t, I can understand your despair.
There should be an FA primer about the “stages” of acceptance, because they’re really real! I’ve heard a lot of people go through various stages — first anger, and so forth, with a temporary discomfort in there somewhere.
Great post. Things will change. Like I tell my teenage to-be stepdaughters — the guys are just not mature enough for you, now!
I’m starting to lose faith in this world that there are any men who DON’T think of superficially of physical attractiveness.
Been there… and now I’ve got the husband to prove me wrong.
This is one of the reasons I’ve always tended to date older guys. My husband is four years older than me, but we met when we were both older. My boyfriend before him was two years younger than my mother. The boyfriend before him was a decade older than me. I don’t know how old you are (you’re in college aren’t you?), but I am 29 and in my early- to mid-20s, I found guys my age extremely superficial. When I met my husband (he was 30), we both knew we weren’t looking for casual dating or any games; we were both in it to find that one lasting relationship. I was no bastion of self-accepting pride and high-confidence, either, but I think I don’t think I would have been able to start a relationship with Brandon if I hadn’t found myself first and come to a place where I might not have liked who I was, but I had started the process of accepting it.
Shortly after I met my husband, I remember marveling about that after three months, he still liked me! to my psychiatrist. I just couldn’t believe that guys out there existed who didn’t want a Barbie doll. She told me that guys often date those kinds of women, but they’re not the kind of women they marry. Some people may have been offended by this, but I understood what she meant: Not that Barbie doll kind of women can’t be deep and not that I’m ugly as sin, but that many men like to date the fantasy, but when they marry, it’s usually based on substance and the total package.
In my experiences, fat is a hindrance in dating. There are many people who have internalized cultural messages that fat isn’t beautiful and the stereotypes surrounding fat people. It’ frustrating, for sure, but it also makes finding “the one” all the more special and beautiful.
Try being a woman of color and a woman of size. I notice that the majority of the women on this poster are white women.
The fact of the matter is that men are primarily attracted to
white women and then black women seem to be last on
the totum pole. I’m saying this as a fairly attractive-looking
black woman.
I’ve noticed that both black and white men seem to prefer
white women and that white men that love big women only
want to be with white women. I’m 29 years old, single,
college-educated, no kids, currently in between jobs and
can’t find a decent job.
I’ve noticed this when I’m out on the street and see couples,
online and everywhere else. As much as I would love to feel
sorry for you, the truth is, you are a white woman and you
are privileged. Even if there was a size acceptance
movement in this country, I seriously doubt that it would
benefit black woman. Just like all of the other movements
in this country (i.e. feminism, gay rights, etc.), from talking
to other black people, we are all in agreement that such
movements don’t benefit us as much as it does everyone
else.
I’m sure that you will find someone. 70% of the women
in your culture do not have children outside of marriage
or have a significant portion of men that are in jail,
on the downlow or just not going somewhere with
themselves and the ones that are leftover, prefer white
women to us. I wish I could feel sorry for you but I
can’t so get over yourself.
Oh, my GOSH, everybody. Here I go to sleep, and wake up to the amazing shower of goodness of all these comments. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Meowser and Piffle, thank you for your stories. They give me faith.
Vidya, maybe grad school is better?
Cyn, your story is inspiring. I want that to happen to me, and I’m certain its everything I’ve ever wanted. And it gives me hope. Hope hope hope hope hope.
Spacedcowgirl, your response, too, makes me feel better about it all.
Mercy, the hair on the chin comment made me laugh out loud.
Elizabeth, you’re right. Sisters, this is our shared experience!
Bee, thanks for the vote of confidence and all the beautiful compliments. Boost of self-esteem GO!
Big Liberty, you’re absolutely right, and I’m sorry to hear of all you have gone through. You’re plight will be close to my heart when I’m thinking of all this. And I agree a part of my fear is that I will settle just because someone likes me. And that scares me even more on the short-term than ending up alone. I hope hope hope that I will be fortunate enough to never have that happen to me. I’ll keep your story in mind. Thank you for sharing it. And hmm…maybe I’ll post my “stages” of FA at some point. Thus far, I’ve gone through a couple.
Rachel, thank you. I’ll look for the more mature crowd, yes?
THANK YOU EVERYONE! This has made me feel infinitely better. I was scared to post this, fearing trolls and my own vulnerability, but that has proven not to be a problem. Thank you thank you thank you. What FA has given me is a legitimate place to express these real life concerns and problems, and has found me the women of my soul. We walk this world larger than life, and together we will hold each other afloat when we’re down.
Mari, I just read your post, and I’m sorry you feel that way. Your opinion is valid, and sad. I understand that I am a person of privilege. I do disagree that I should “get over myself” but I think you’re missing the point.
It sounds to me like you are at a similar stage in this particular problem as I am. However, you have found more reasons to be pessimistic about it. I’m not saying your reasons aren’t valid, but I do hope that maybe you can take something away from the things women have posted here. White or not, we all have this problem. Maybe being of color puts you at a disadvantage to me, but this is a universal struggle. Men also have privilege over women. Heterosexuals over homosexuals and bisexuals and transgendered persons. But for all of us, this is universal, this fear.
We don’t have to feel sorry for each other to have legitimate feelings. So please don’t put me down because you feel your plight is more valid. It might be, for you, but for me, that’s not what I need to hear right now. I recognize that you too are struggling with this, and on a different level at that. I’m sorry, and hope the posts here can be of some comfort that you are beautiful.
I’m sorry that you feel neither white men nor men of color find you beautiful because of your size, but I’m sure that if you focus, like the women above are saying, on finding someone with similar interests, someone more mature, etc. you will find someone who finds you beautiful too, despite that particular hurdle. Good luck, and we are here for you, too.
Adding to the chorus of happily married women. I am nowhere close to conventionally attractive – not just fat, but also over 6′ tall, having persistent acne, etc. I never had a single date in high school. I met my first boyfriend freshman year of college, which would have helped my self-confidence if he hadn’t had a vision imparement. (In my lowest moments, yeah, I started thinking that no one who could see me clearly could ever find me attractive.)
But then I met my husband as a friend at the tail end of the year, got together with him at the beginning of sophmore year, and have been happily with him ever since.
There are no guarentees that you’ll find “the one” – not even models and movie stars are guarenteed that, and they’re starting at an advantage. That’s (only one of the reasons) why you need to be happy with yourself, and have an excellent life outside of looking for a mate. But there’s nothing anti-feminist in _wanting_ that mate, and wanting him to find you attractive. Attractive comes in many more forms than what any given society says it does. And, not to discount the importance of being physically attracted to that one person, for anyone worth it, it’s more about the meshing of the minds / goals / attitudes / lives.
@BigLiberty – I was almost in tears reading your comment. I’m so glad that you were strong enough to put your life back together.
@Mari – I stand by my assertion that there’s always someone out there that will find you attractive. Yes, I’m white, so I can’t truely understand what it is like to experience racial discrimination. But like I said above, societial standards of beauty don’t hold up when looking at individual people. My brother’s engaged to a (admittedly thin) black woman, and while he has dated white women before, sometimes seriously, he’s always preferred women of color.
Chrissy, look at what a wonderful support you have! It’s so hard for all of us, if we’re feeling lonely–but the bottom line is, try and find that love and comfort in yourself, your passions and your loved ones primarily. And we all have our in-and-out days. 🙂
Mari, I hear you–I don’t know if you’ve ever watched the Tyra Banks talkshow, but I was featured on an episode as part of her race series, which judged how men of various races were attracted to women of various races. The way things turned out, most men (out of a group of white, black, Asian and latino) preferred the latina girls, but–there was a beautiful, beautiful black lady there. She was stunning. At one point, Tyra asked the men who they would sleep with–and ONE chose this woman. Asking then who they would marry, NO ONE chose this woman. It was totally enraging, and people from all races went up in arms. The man who outright rejected her was a black man.
Ultimately, Risha is completely right–to each their own, and there are many, many men who love black women of size. Remember also that the societal view of large black women seems more positive than that of large white women–if you’re black, it’s ‘okay’ because you’re a powerful goddess. Most fat white women aren’t seen of as then more motherly and powerful, we’re seen as gross or trashy. (Again, to each their own! But think about even in movies.)
However, your double-struggle is definitely recognized, and we stand by you and wish all the best for you.
I reread my comment to you, Mari, and realized that in my attempt to be encouraging, it could be read as invalidating the problems you face as a woman of color. You’re facing the double whammy of racism and fatism, so you’re starting at even more of a disadvantage than us white fat women.
But I still think that there are men out there who will desire you – they’re just a little thinner (no pun intended) on the ground.
@Crissy and Risha,
I’m sorry if what I said was upsetting. I don’t know how well I’ve really gotten over anything…I know I’m a fundamentally changed person because of what has happened. My way of coping has been to try to “mother the world” — protect others from having what happened to me happen to them. Beyond some failed therapy, and dealing with PTSD, writing my blog has been the best thing for me, in all this. Also, using what I know to help my fiance understand the abuse he suffered was valid, and that he’s allowed to be angry about it, and address it in order to move on.
So many people who are abused and manipulated, due to the complexity, subtlety, and non-clear-cut nature of most abuse believe the abuse is theirs to own, when in fact they were, ultimately, the victim. Men are especially prone to let abusive pasts fester, given the societal pressure on them to never be seen as a victim.
I suppose whenever I hear people speaking about how they’re upset because they don’t feel attractive to others, a little alarm bell goes off in my head and I tell my story, in order to educate. I’m sorry if it was a bit off-topic — this post is about you, not me.
Wow, Chrissy. Talk about some positive responses!!! 😀
Can I add my voice to the never-thought-I’d-find-love-but-now-I’m-happily-married chorus? 😉 I was just like you, at your age (I’m 32 now). I had boyfriends, and some serious ones, but they never lasted, and I became convinced that it was my fat. That nobody could ever love me simply because I was fat. (Having that very sentence drilled into my head for pretty much all of my life didn’t help, though.) You know what the best thing for me was? Living on my own. When you’re living on your own, with just yourself for company most of the time, you can’t help but get to know yourself. By the time The Hubster and I met online (yep, I’m a fatty-with-a-man-on-the-internet, too), I was much more comfortable in my own skin. And having sorted out some of my “issues” (like Big Liberty, I went through a spate of abusive relationships, too), I had finally gotten to the point where I KNEW I wanted a man, but I didn’t NEED one. I had finally gotten to the point where I was very clear on that one. I wanted a man to share my life with, but if I didn’t find one, I could have gone on quite happily with my life. Wouldn’t you know it? As soon as I figured that out, I met The Hubster.
The thing is, though, when I met him, I still wasn’t very good with the self-esteem thing. He would tell me I was beautiful and I would tell him I wasn’t. Eventually he stopped saying it, so I began to think that yes, he loved me, but he “put up with” the way I look BECAUSE he loved me. It’s taken NINE years for me to get to the point where I realize that HE ACTUALLY DOES THINK I’M BEAUTIFUL. (Sorry, that has to be in caps because OMG… I’ve been SOO fucking stupid!) I bring this up because even if you’re not quite there yet with the self-esteem thing, that doesn’t rule out the possibility of finding a good man. Yeah, I’ll admit, it does make you more likely to pick a relationship with a not so good man, but I don’t subscribe to the “NOBODY will love you until you love yourself” ideal.
As for Mari… I’m sorry she had to come here and do that to you. Yes, her feelings are ABSOLUTELY valid, but the way she came here and basically said “you don’t have a right to be upset, because I have it so much worse than you do” was so WRONG. You are here talking about your own feelings, not making a generalized statement. But, having said that, I’m SO impressed with the way you handled it. Girl, you’ve definitely got a good heart AND a good head.
{{{HUGS}}}
Dear Piffle,
Please feel free to send all of the red-haired, blue-eyed men that you don’t want to Winnipeg, c/o Susan.
Not only am I a feminist, but I’m also a lesbian.
And I would love, LOVE, just once, to be the woman who walks into a room and every man’s head turns. Just once.
The notion of fat black women being treated more positively is beginning to lose its merit as the obesity pandemic continues. While there’s no doubt Queen Latifah and Mo’Nique have been a constant target of fatphobes, even average size black women such as Beyonce, Raven Symone and Ashanti are now being labeled fat by those who think size 2 or even less is the only appealing weight.
Believe me, there are plenty of haters who see a big black woman or biracial woman and think she’s just as gross and nasty as her white counterparts, and sometimes they also get stereotyped as a low-class, lazy, and living off welfare with no ambition to make something of themselves. Of course, there are plenty of those women out there, but they come in all shapes and colors.
I’m a biracial woman of size, and this may sound harsh, but Mari, I have zero sympathy for you.
You come here and tell Chrissy to get over it, and then launch into a sob story about your own problems, thinking they are much more worse than yours, expecting us to think you should be the one to really be pitied. Sorry, that doesn’t fly with me. Relationship woes affect all women, regardless of color. But to sit there and say “black men won’t date me because they’re too busy looking for white women” is a racist comment. While it’s true that a majority of black men are in jail, there are decent, honest, men out there who don’t want a white woman, and they don’t care what size she is. Take the blinders off and stop being so wrapped up in yourself.
And women of color can benefit from the FA movement. I know I am.
Bree, as a BIRACIAL woman, you’ve probably experienced
privilege that your darker counterpoints don’t know anything
about and you know I’m telling the truth!
Truth is, there’s colorism in every community. The more Eurocentric your features are, the more you are given
“a pass.” Studies have shown that among African-Americans,
the lighter someone’s skin is, the more desirable and attractive they are seen.
Someone mentioned Beyonce, whose considered the epitome
of desirability for African-American women but no one talks about Kelly Rowland (whose darker and a lot prettier with
natural beauty) as much. The fact of the matter is, I’ve actually heard men ogle after women such as Beyonce and
Halle Berry but then turn around and put down women
such as India Arie and Whoopi Goldberg for having more
Afrocentric looks.
Bree, your worldview is skewered because you are biracial.
If you were ten shades darker than you are now, I guarantee that the number of men interested in would
plummet. You mention Tyra Banks, whose a former model
and also a light-skin woman. But what about Alex Wek?
She’s considerably darker than Tyra is and when I go to
message boards, all I hear are people making comments
about how ugly Alex is but then ugly white women such
as Allyson Hannigan and Victoria Beckham are not nearly
as ostracized as much.
I’m sorry, you just don’t get it and growing up with a white
parent probably gave you a pass that the rest of us couldn’t have. I guarantee you that being raised with a parent
who was never called the n-word or stopped by the police makes you the morality compass of America.
*Cause if we all think like Bree and just hold hands and sing Koumbaya then all of life’s problems will forever disappear and maybe we can have a rainbow coalition. It’s not real, honey and neither are you.*
I know that the biracial kids are seen as cool, have an easier time finding suitable mates because they are white,
therefore they are halfway right. No, you don’t know what’s
it’s like to be a dark-skinned black woman and yes, black
men do seem to have it the worst.
You say that women of color benefit will benefit from the
FA movement but look at the feminist movement. White
feminists have praised Hilary Clinton and then turn around
and make horrible comments about Michelle Obama.
The gay movement? Yes, openly white gay people like
Neal Patrick Harris, Ellen and the guy from Grey’s Anatomy
are given magazine covers, interviews and awards for
being open about their sexuality but then black gay
people like RuPaul (seen him/her lately?), Queen
Latifah and even the late great Paul Winfield are
relegated to closets or sent into obscurity.
The fact of the matter is that movements such as this
one will never benefit us as much as your rose-colored
glasses would lead you to believe. You are a light-skinned,
privileged biracial woman. Don’t pretend to have a clue
as to what it means to be really black because you don’t!
Furthermore, to presume to know what it’s like to be darker than a paper bag and not have the same privileges as a lighter-skinned woman is about as realistic as the Bushisms that our President gives on the economy!
Where’s the blind, false optimism where you need it?
Bree, it’s time to come out of your little fantasy world
because it’s safe!
Mari,
Speaking as a fat black woman, I do know where you are coming from. And I’m not light skinned, biracial or anything else that you might like to use to show that I have some privilige you don’t. I’m a regular brown skinned woman with nappy hair, just like you and a lot of other black wome. So I do know what it’s like to feel my femininity has been devalued in this society.
But you’re still wrong to come here like you did. I hope you didn’t think that “poor, pitiful me” attitude would make people feel sorry for you. If you hadn’t attacked the original poster as you did, people might have. But you did, so they didn’t. Even I don’t feel sorry for you, despite understanding what you’re feeling, having been there myself.
This is going to sound facile, but I’ll say it anyway. Have you tried therapy? I ask because there was a time in my life when I felt the way you did and was angry about it, as you are. Hon, the anger doesn’t hurt anyone but you. Trust me on this. So you’re better off learning to let it go.
Also, you grossly exaggerate things. Take a look at the numbers from the last census. Most black men (90%) marry black women. And I’m sorry, but the majority of black men are not in jail, gay or dating white women. That just isn’t so. I know that trope has been used over and over in the media; that doesn’t make it true.
I have one question for you: Are you in relationship?
I wasn’t coming here for anyone to feel sorry for me;
the original poster needs a reality check.
The fact of the matter is: the image of the black woman
has been devalued and when I hear fat white
women talking about how hard they have it, it makes me
very angry. You can’t tell me that when I see white
actresses like Cate Blanchett and Camryn Manheim seen
as strong, independent women and yet when black women
show these same qualities, we are seen as a joke.
Have you seen Reality Check on Madtv or seen the movie
Norbit? Sorry, Mammy, you go back to taking care of
Scarlett O’Hara so the original poster can feel sorry
for herself but I can’t? How incredibly Aunt Jemima-ish
of you but typical. Black women are each other’s biggest
enemies. Your comments and Bree’s comments prove
it. The same feelings that white women validate in
each other, we turn around and destroy each other.
That’s another problem. Black women are supposed
to be strong all the time and not supposed to let
anything get us down. I apologize for being human.
Mari,
As to your question, yes I am. And you know what? He’s black! Yes, a black man with a black woman. To hear you tallk, this is something rarely seen.
I haven’t seen Norbit (I don’t watch movies making fun of fat folks) or MadTV lately, so I don’t know what you’re talking about there.
No, the original poster doesn’t need a reality check. Nor do you. Neither of you is wrong. But when you came here talking about how hard you have it–what did you expect, really? Did you think everyone would say “Oh yes Mari, you’re absolutely right–none of our problems are anything compared to yours.”
My mother once told me something and she was absolutely right. When what you’re putting out there is negative and angry, what do you expect to get in return? (Yes, I know this is in “The Secret.” There is no secret; a lot of peoples’ mothers’ told them this.)
Like I said, I’ve been where you are. I know the anger–sometimes it was so intense I literally couldn’t see for a few seconds. But trust me, having therapy (with a black therapist, of course) was the best thing I could have done.
I hope you do find a job soon, with insurance that will cover therapy. I’m going home now–I hope you have a calmer weekend.
Thank you Heather, for saying some things I would have said to Mari. I do not live in a fantasy world and I don’t think we should hold hands and sing Kumbuyah. However, having an angry bitter attitude like yours isn’t the right way either. If you spend so much time with a “them vs. me” mindset, people WILL pick up on it and guess what? They won’t want anything to do with you. Maybe instead of blaming everyone else, you need to look at yourself first.
No, I haven’t been called the n-word to my face, but I have experienced racist comments from both black and white people alike. But they are the ones with the problems, not me. Biracials do not have it as easy as you think Mari, and it’s not just half-white, half-black either. There are plenty of people out there who are perfectly willing to discrmininate against brown skin whether it’s Native American, Hispanic, Mexican, Asian, black; anything not white is inferior to them.
Ahh, Chrissy! I saw that article too, while I was checking my e-mail, and thought to myself, “Hmm, this seems like good ‘Jiggly Bits’-fodder…”
Anyway, I know that you’ll find someone and that that someone will be amazing. You have always been smart, kind, funny, quirky… and now you’re confident and aware of your beauty, so you’re be unstoppable!!
I used to think that no one could ever love me because my body didn’t fit the “standard” and my face wasn’t dazzling. But in this past year I’ve almost given up altogether on feeling bad about myself and decided to feel good about myself, just based on the fact that living without confidence was making me feel terrible. And I’ve had a much better time with dating, et cetera… and found guys who are looking for a good person, not just a good physique.
Love ya.
Um, that’s supposed to be “you’ll be unstoppable”… stupid Japanese… -_-;;
I really appreciate all the feedback, here, but I’d appreciate it if everyone stopped ganging up on Mari.
Mari, my last words to you are this: I wasn’t trying to say, in any way shape or form, that I have it worse than you. I never said in that entire post anything about me compared to other women. I wasn’t asking you to feel sorry for me. I wasn’t asking you to care. You decided that I wanted you to do those things, I didn’t intend for you to.
My last words to you on this subject is thank you for your input, and your feelings are valid and important to express. I’d appreciate it, however, if you did not attempt to devalue my feelings and the feelings of others.
Again, thank you for expressing another point of view. And Bree and Heather, your points of view are appreciated as well.
I’d like this blog not to feature hate. I’d like this blog to be positive towards each other, and our opinions. I want this blog to accept other’s opinions, even when I do not agree. I want this blog to be a place for debate. But I do not, EVER, want this blog to alienate other people. We are getting dangerously close here. I’m not saying anyone is hating, but I do think that it could turn into that. And I ask everyone to stop for a moment and decide whether your criticisms of each other are constructive or not.
Thank you all, for your kind words, your opinions, and your debates. Let’s keep it up, but make sure we’re respectful of each other!
I”ll respect the blog and won’t publish anything else hateful.
But I will say that I’m very surprised that my harshest critics
were members of my own race. Not surprised, though.
I will say that it’s easy for women (regardless of race) to talk
about how easy it is to find someone when they do have
someone. Let’s face it: There are not enough men to go
around. I think if I had heard from more single fat women,
I might be inclined not to feel so alone.
I’m so sorry you feel so alone. I do too. But I understand for you there’s an aspect of race involved that makes you feel distant from me and the other women who posted their own successes and failures here. I hope you can find some women of color, who have had similar experiences to you, and maybe together you can help each other feel less alone.
But in the meantime, can I help at all?
Need it be said that I don’t think Heather ever indicated WHICH Races she was made up of? Biracial could have meant black/white, black/latina, black/Asian, anything. The hatred being sent out to everyone here is unacceptable. Some time ago, Kate or FJ wrote a GREAT blog on the reality of the difference between fat white women and fat black women. But can we please realize that even if the struggle is harder for black women, WE’RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. Most fat-positive women in the fatosphere are feminist and fight for rights of ALL diversities. You cannot shun someone who is in the same boat as you, even if your races differ. Chrissy, you are Always entitled to your feelings and we will always be a support system for you. Thanks to everyone that has treated her with kindness and empathy, as well as Mari.
Uh…sorry Chrissy, I was in the middle of writing this when you posted. 😡 don’t mean to look like some kind of vigilante!
I never thought I’d have a problem finding a man, not after the age of 15 or so. When I started thinking that, I weighed about 225. Now, I’ve been holding at about 330 for five years. And you know, I never did have a problem. Still don’t. I had many relationships — some with awful men, some with great ones with whom it just didn’t work out — and eventually I got married. And then I ended up additionally in a relationship with my best friend, whom I’d met online, when he moved up to my town. He was the one person where I always figured, oh, he’s out of my league, dates thin women, et cetera … until he got here and there was instant, undeniable chemistry.
How we feel about our bodies, and how we treat ourselves, will dictate whether we get what we want. When we believe we deserve the things we want, and that we will work to get them WITHOUT putting ourselves down, we end up getting them. I made a decision a long time ago that I wasn’t going to let people make me feel bad for being myself. My parents did that the entire time I was growing up. I guess sometime in my rebellious teen years I just decided to rebel against the idea that I was worthless. As soon as I did, people stopped treating me like I was worthless, because I didn’t let them. Did I still have a couple guys who told me they weren’t attracted to me? Yes. Did I blame myself and hate myself for it? No, no more than I would have blamed myself for being a blonde being rejected by someone who preferred redheads, or having big feet with someone who had a fetish for tiny feet. That wasn’t my problem — it was theirs.
Mari….co-sign! BTW, y’all…..I’m 41….
I co-signed a tad prematurely (due to emotional triggers from Mari’s posts), before adding that, in addition to being the “ripe old” age of 41 and fat….. I’m also multi-racial (African American/ Cuban/Native American) — without the privilege of lighter skin and I’m Bisexual to boot! So where do you think that leaves moi?
Bottom line: I’m just hellbent on living my life as I see fit…..tattoos, leather pants and all! No longer will I bemoan whether women/men will date me or find me attractive….my suggestion is for y’all to do the same.
I wasted way too much time in my 20s and 30s doing just that…..so, I know the pain that y’all feel….I’m just choosing to not let it consume me anymore….
Oh, I should warn ya: If you choose to blaze your own trail….there will be detractors who will “raise the alarm” and tell you that “you should find someone before you get too old”…..
And, IMHO…..Zaftige, it would really be nice to think that WE’RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER….but, as we have seen in the blogosphere of late, we ain’t exactly ALL IN THIS TOGETHER…..as we’ve seen racism rear its’ ugly head in feminist publishing and the sexist/racist play-by-play of the Obama/Clinton nomination debacle on the blogosphere……
Peace….
Mari: It’s really difficult to read your comments because of the formatting you have chosen to use. Are you copying and then pasting your comments from another software program?
“70% of the women in your culture…”
“Our” culture? As in, a shared white culture? I do hope you don’t mean to imply that all we white folk think, act, and speak exactly alike. While we share a skin color and the privileges inherent with it, there is still no collective and encompassing shared white culture. Perhaps this is just a poor word choice on your part. And I’d like to know how you assumed that the majority of commenters here are white based on nothing more than a few comments and an anonymous screen name.
I understand that there are issues involving race and FA that need to be discussed more so than they are now, as well as issues of class and gender. But let’s allow Chrissy one post in which she can share her experiences – even if they are the experiences of a privileged white woman – without making her feel ashamed or guilty for having those feelings. And I’d also appreciate it if others would stop assuming that fat white women have it so easy because they’re white. Being white does very little to save your job if your employer hates fat people and wants to get rid of you. Being white carries no weight with health insurance companies who only see what you weigh and refuse to insure you. Shouldn’t we spend our time and efforts on eradicating all oppression instead of comparing whose is worse?
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Hi, can’t help commenting on your post. Let us not confine ourselves with what is beautiful in the eyes of men. As long as you feel beautiful in your own skin, that’s all that matters. The right man will come along someday at the right time.
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I haven’t read the rest of the comment thread, but I wanted to say that I think it’s perfectly natural to want to feel desirable and attractive. Everyone wants that. As a guy, I want that, and having been in several relationships with women who really “liked” me but who were very vocal about the fact that I wasn’t their “type” … man, it really hurt. I think part of a relationship involves being fully appreciated. And beauty is so much in the eye of the beholder … if a man loves you, he will find you beautiful. And it’s not unreasonable to expect him to find you beautiful, and want him to find you beautiful.
On the shallow 1– 10 scale of the world, most of us can’t expect that the majority of the opposite sex will find us attractive. It’s hard to remember that not everyone has to … just that one special person. I don’t know what it’s like to be you, or to live in your skin, but I do know how it feels to be ridiculed based on appearance; I was a funny-looking kid, and was told so by peers and adults throughout my entire childhood and adolescence. I can hardly stand to look at my own face in the mirror, even as an adult. I know I “shouldn’t” still feel that way, but I do.
And so I know that the really hard thing is to accept someone else’s positive input when it comes. And it’s also really hard to hold out for it, you know? I think those of us who are self-conscious about how we look are very used to putting ourselves down first, to anticipating insults, to being self-deprecating before someone else has the chance. It’s hard to believe that someone wants us, and harder yet to believe that we can, should, and MUST wait for someone who does want us entirely, inside and out.
Just so you know, my daughter is a 20 year old athletic young woman attending the University of Pennsylvania. At 5’5″ she weighs about 135. Curvy, pretty and friendly. She wears body conscious clothing, but not provocative in nature.
She gets a lot of attention from men, but not a lot of dates. She admits to me that she is picky, she wants an intelligent and mature guy who is also fun. She, too, knows she wants babies.
Recently, she had a man on the street comment to her (when he overheard another man whistle at her) that she is good looking, but is not the type that a guy would marry. You can imagine how crushed she felt. So here is an example of an attractive girl who is judged by her appearance to be attractive, but not in the “right way” according to this jerk on the street.
These attitudes extend beyond weight – believe me, I have been a young woman starving to be at an acceptable weight/size – and now I am a morbidly obese older woman.
I am lucky to have a husband who met and married me when I was in the middle and still loves me – I know the difficulties that come with all ranges of weight and size issues. I can tell you that people tell me all the time that they just don’t “see” me as obese. I don’t think of myself that way – I am active and happy and smart – that is what people see.
All I can say is what I tell my daughters – people of quality are more concerned with who you are. When people get to know each other that is what they see – the person, not the size.
Stay positive, develop yourself and it will all come together!
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